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  1. #1
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    Fade by Chris Mayhew

    Hello, I got Fade by Chris Mayhew the other day and whilst practising the lazy rise I found that my hands are a bit too small for the grip and I can't seem to be able to put my thumb inside the cards or even riffle down properly, and I know that I am only a young teen and should probably wait until my hands grow however i would love to start practacing now, so if any of you are having the same problems any tips that you have would be a real help!

    Thanks
    ~Shizz

  2. #2
    Mike Anderson's Avatar :: Elite Member
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    If Bridge sized cards are available where you live. Try those for now.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson View Post
    If Bridge sized cards are available where you live. Try those for now.
    Thanks I will certainly try that.

    ~Shizz

  4. #4
    Mike Anderson's Avatar :: Elite Member
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    For younger magicians I would recommend starting out with Bridge sized cards and as you age upgraded to Poker sized cards. But do note just because most magicians use Poker sized cards doesn't mean you have to use them. Use whatever cards and cards sizes makes your job easier. You don't want to rely on focusing too hard on handling the cards which may be cumbersome. When it can easily be overcome by card size change. The easier you can handle and pull of sleights the more focus you can spend on presentaion and spectator interaction.
    Last edited by Mike Anderson; 01-06-2012 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar
    Imagination, is more important than knowledge." - A.E.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson View Post
    For younger magicians I would recommend starting out with Bridge sized cards and as you age upgraded to Poker sized cards. But do note just because most magicians use Poker sized cards doesn't mean you have to use them. Use whatever cards and cards sizes makers your job easier. You don't want to rely on focusing to hard on handling cards that may be cumbersome. When it can easily be overcome by card size changes. The easier you can handle and pull of sleights the more focus you can spend on presentaion and spectator interaction.
    Thanks for the advise I am going to be buying some bridge size cards of the internet and they should be here soon because I don't really have a local magic shop however I am really greatful for your advise because my small hands had really been bothering me for a while as I have been unable to perform slieghts properly so some tricks that I have wanted to learn the most I could not, and hopefully this will help me.

    Thanks again.
    ~Shizz

  6. #6
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    I have heard the advice to use bridge sized cards over and over, and I have never agreed with it.

    Using bridge sized cards is a problem (to my way of thinking) for a number of reasons. They are different than standard poker cards, so that makes them suspicious. You may never have anyone ask about it but they may still be thinking it subconciously, which can lessen the impact of an effect. Additionally, many people I have spoken with say that when they tried to make the transition from bridge sized cards to standard poker sized, they were unable to do so, or that it was extremely difficult. Most card magic involves muscle-memory, so the memory your hands have of working with bridge cards isn't going to transfer to the poker sized cards with any certainty. It might, or it might not. Depends on you.

    So, my personal advice is this: struggle through it. Work hard in secret. Practice, practice, practice. Do not give up. It's going to take a lot longer for you to master a sleight than someone who doesn't have your issues with smaller hands. However, that also means that you are already going to be far more practiced by the time you DO succeed. Your hands will probably grow, but even if they don't it's not the end of the world.

    The biggest thing I noted in your initial post is that you said you got Fade "the other day" which sounds to me like it was within a month or two of your post? If so, it sounds like you're just starting out with it. Calm yourself. Give yourself and the Art the respect and dedication deserved and take the time to not just learn the effect, but practice it until you're so sick of it you want to never see another card. By that time, I am willing to bet you will have overcome your initial frustration. Muscle memory takes time and repetition to set. Give it both of those and you're going to be golden, I promise.

    Worst case scenario: if you simply can't master a sleight after you have given it a good six months of solid practice, try searching for a new method if you're that frustrated. Remember Max Malini? Smallest magic hands in the world and yet he was a brilliant Mage. Give yourself the option to explore different methods and ideas for achieving the same effect as the sleight.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Belgarion; 01-07-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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  7. #7
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    I agree about not changing cards. I worried about the small hand things for a while but I have found one can find ways to make anything work. Still, I guess if someone is more comfortable with bridge size decks, what the he**. It is a free country.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
    I have heard the advice to use bridge sized cards over and over, and I have never agreed with it.

    Using bridge sized cards is a problem (to my way of thinking) for a number of reasons. They are different than standard poker cards, so that makes them suspicious. You may never have anyone ask about it but they may still be thinking it subconciously, which can lessen the impact of an effect. Additionally, many people I have spoken with say that when they tried to make the transition from bridge sized cards to standard poker sized, they were unable to do so, or that it was extremely difficult. Most card magic involves muscle-memory, so the memory your hands have of working with bridge cards isn't going to transfer to the poker sized cards with any certainty. It might, or it might not. Depends on you.

    So, my personal advice is this: struggle through it. Work hard in secret. Practice, practice, practice. Do not give up. It's going to take a lot longer for you to master a sleight than someone who doesn't have your issues with smaller hands. However, that also means that you are already going to be far more practiced by the time you DO succeed. Your hands will probably grow, but even if they don't it's not the end of the world.

    The biggest thing I noted in your initial post is that you said you got Fade "the other day" which sounds to me like it was within a month or two of your post? If so, it sounds like you're just starting out with it. Calm yourself. Give yourself and the Art the respect and dedication deserved and take the time to not just learn the effect, but practice it until you're so sick of it you want to never see another card. By that time, I am willing to bet you will have overcome your initial frustration. Muscle memory takes time and repetition to set. Give it both of those and you're going to be golden, I promise.

    Worst case scenario: if you simply can't master a sleight after you have given it a good six months of solid practice, try searching for a new method if you're that frustrated. Remember Max Malini? Smallest magic hands in the world and yet he was a brilliant Mage. Give yourself the option to explore different methods and ideas for achieving the same effect as the sleight.

    Hope that helps.
    I understand what you mean and with a lot of slieght i have done what you have said, practise practise practise for months on end but when you have been practicing month after month, day after day, hour after hour and for a lot slieghts and you just cannot do it because of hand size over and over, it is very irritating when the tricks you want to do you cannot, now again I do understand what you are saying but I can just tell than in a few months I will again be thinking about how much time I have wasted trying to learn a sleight that even though it is a brilliant sleight and is probably very easy I just could not do it, and you may be right about the change between bridge size and poker size but for a lot of tricks I have used poker size so hopefully it won't be so hard for me. Thank you though for taking the time out of your day to try and help it is truly appreciated!


    Thanks
    ~Shizz
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  9. #9
    Mike Anderson's Avatar :: Elite Member
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    So if I am reading this right.

    You would rather struggle and struggle for hours and hours, using Poker sized cards because they are suspect to scrutiny due to size by a spectator? The last time I checked we are doing magic, and everything we do is being scrutinized subconsciously to a degree. If your presentation is lacking in which the biggest concern to the spectator is deck size or proportions. You have other issues to worry about than a minor detail such as card size. They will in fact be more prone to suspicion when you are fumbling with cards that is hard to work with, because you can't accomplish a sleight due to difficulties with hand size or card size. (Don't get me wrong hand size isn't the big problem) But why give yourself more of a headache using cards that make it difficult? Also switching from bridge sized cards to poker may be irritating at first. But your muscle memory won't be that precise in which a mere half an inch will be a deciding factor in your inability to perform card sleights forever.

    Use smaller cards, practice and get the sleight down to where it looks polished and natural. If you have cards that are too wide for your hands. How natural will you look when fumbling to perform for someone? As you get older use Poker sized cards. Or use bridge sized forever. There is no set rule on card size.

    Also explain to me what's suspicious about cards that are slightly smaller than poker sized cards? Most people don't know the difference between poker and bridge cards. Which leads me to this question.

    Is it even more suspicious because I use jumbo cards to present to a larger audience? Especially because most people have never seen jumbo cards.

    The answer is no. As long as your presentaion is there and your magic is enjoyable. Who cares what size, color and designs your cards have. The spectator will be focused on the magic and not "Are those cards big? Are they slightly smaller? Why are they so big? I have never once been asked what's the deal with my Propaganda cards, or my jumbo Bicycle Rider Backs. They enjoy the magic and walk away with a good memory. Not confused or concerned with what tools I used to trick them.
    Last edited by Mike Anderson; 01-07-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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  10. #10
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    I was just going by my own experience that I have always been able to work something out. Just a suggestion. I have no problem with anyone using whatever they feel comfortable with.

  11. #11
    Mike Anderson's Avatar :: Elite Member
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    Sorry, Walrus that post was essentially directed towards Belgarion.
    Imagination, is more important than knowledge." - A.E.

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    Ya, I did not think you were sticking me out. Since I was involved in the talk I just felt like jumping back in. I am kind of bored today. No problems my good man.

  13. #13
    ChristopherThisse's Avatar :: Moderator
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    I've practice some tricks or moves for a year and a half before showing anyone. Sometimes a purchase is more like an investment.

    I can see the valid parts of all these points. In the end, I say do what works. However, I do have this advice: If you're going to use bridge-sized cards "until your hands get bigger", then keep practicing with poker cards as well. As in, work with bridge cards for 20 minutes, then poker for 5 (random numbers - Just use the 'odd' sized cards significantly less). That way, as your hands grow, the bridge size won't be so hammered into your muscle memory. It'll be easier to transition to using poker sized full time. Personally, I use a variety of cards (thick, thin, custom, standard, new, old, in between, etc) so I don't get locked into particular nuances with certain decks.
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  14. #14
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    Hey guys, thought I would just chime in here real quick.

    First off, thanks for the support shizzle, i hope you could find some form of value out of the effect. With that said, I have heard the small hands excuse many times, I understand it can be frustrating, but guess what, my hands are small as well! I can barely fit a card in them, but that does not prevent me from palming, its a matter of finding what works best for you.

    There is no shame in using bridge sized cards, however it does limit you in certain ways. If you become comfortable doing card magic with poker sized cards, you can do card magic with any deck available to you, whether it be bridge sized or poker, but if you only practice magic with a bridge sized deck you are now limiting yourself to only that deck of cards since all magic with poker sized cards will feel stranious.

    For example, someone who learns how to drive standard will be able to drive any car, be it standard or automatic (excluding buses and motorcycles and anything else that requires a special class of license), but if you only learn how to drive automatic, then you will find it difficult if the time comes for you to drive a manual transmission car if given the situation. This isn't the perfect example since I myself don't drive standard, but i hope you get the point.

    With all that said, use whatever you feel more comfortable with, but please for the love of god, don't fall into the small hands excuse, because it is not one. Don't believe me? Look no further than a local magican here in Toronto, his name is Mahdi Gilbert, and he has no hands, but he still does card magic, and guess what? He uses poker sized cards! Cheers.

    PS. Heres Mahdi doing a pass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qDYk...eo-mustangbase

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    Thanks for sharing that Chris, that man is truly inspirational. I think everyone should see this link!
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