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  1. #1
    FishSticks's Avatar :: Elite Member
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    Is coin magic harder than card magic?

    I've posted a video of one my tricks from david stone dvd, "Bridal Journey" a simple coins across which I really need to work on. What I mean by that is the smoothness, I just can't get it silky smooth like david stone. I'd go into more detail but I don't want to expose the effect. The main reason why I posted the trick was because of my classic palm. I've been working on the classic palm from March of last year. I would appreciate any feedback on it (if you happen to see the video in the video section).

    This brings me to my question. Sure I can classic palm a coin, can I make it natural? Well, to a point. I guess a spectator wouldn't know its in my hand, but its not perfect like roth's. Sure I can type with it, snap my fingers while a coin still in CP, etc. (Still can't do a coin roll with a coin in CP, I can do the coin roll without one in CP but not with...I don't know why? Just one thing I'll have to work on)

    When I first started I couldn't keep a coin in CP for more than 2 seconds, let alone hold it there. Some people pick it up faster than others.

    Why is coin magic by some deemed to be harder? Does everyone have such a problem with the CP? Is it the smoothness of it? Surely there are card sleights such as the pass which I've been told are harder than the CP (I know VERY little card magic, basically the double lift is it for me). I've managed to do, with alot of practice, some hard flourishes well now such as the four coin roll down (split verison) found on dat watkins site, and everyone knows the coin roll. Don't know if these are classified as "sleights"

    I'm working currently on getting 2 coins from DP. This is a challenge! Dai Vernon said to "be natural", I guess that's what makes coin magic "harder" than card, the naturalness of it. I've heard that some people cannot get the classic palm (per the magic cafe) because of the structure of their hands. This is a shame, but I'm not giving up on it!

    It just seems, in my opinion, there are way many more people interested in card magic than coin. I'm not sure why. For example most (all?) of brad christiians DVDs have been about cards, there hasn't been a coin one. Perhaps this is because he is a card magician? (I don't know?)

    What's your opinion of this?
    Sponge and coin magician . Need help with sponge or coin sleight-of-hand magic? PM me!

  2. #2
    Steerpike's Avatar :: Moderator
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    Perhaps instead of worrying about maintaining the classic palm while doing all sorts of digital gymnastics, you should look at the big picture.

    I stood in front of a full-length mirror and relaxed my arms and hands to see how they looked naturally. Then I observed how they looked when using a classic palm, finger palm, and thumb clip. I adjusted my body language accordingly so that my hand looks the same whether or not I have a coin palmed.

    As for card magic, it's more iconic of the trade and for a lot of younger magicians it's easier to show off.
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  3. #3
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    Also, card magic is a lot more versatile, whereas coin magic is limited mainly to vanishes, productions, transportations, bendings and movings. I can't really think of many more things to do with a coin, apart from put it in a bottle, which would come under transportations.

    All in all, card magic has a lot more variety, as you can do ten 'pick a card and i shall find it spectacularly' tricks in a row, and because each one is different, it doesn't get boring, whereas with coin magic, you could probably push it to three or four vanishes before the spectator starts to lose interest.

  4. #4
    Steerpike's Avatar :: Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by retroherb View Post
    All in all, card magic has a lot more variety, as you can do ten 'pick a card and i shall find it spectacularly' tricks in a row, and because each one is different, it doesn't get boring, whereas with coin magic, you could probably push it to three or four vanishes before the spectator starts to lose interest.
    From a mechanical perspective, perhaps. But I'm willing to bet that my Alcatraz coin routine would be a lot more interesting to an audience than an average magician's ten card locations in a row.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    From a mechanical perspective, perhaps. But I'm willing to bet that my Alcatraz coin routine would be a lot more interesting to an audience than an average magician's ten card locations in a row.
    You've misunderstood the point of that statement. I'm not saying that you should do ten card locations in a row. I dislike doing two. What I am saying is that more people do card magic because it is very versatile, and therefore fits more people's styles, and if somebody finds one thing difficult with cards then there is a lot more they can learn with them, but with coins there are only a few limited choices (in comparison)

  6. #6
    Steerpike's Avatar :: Moderator
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    Partly. There's also a laziness factor to it. Coin magic requires more intricate layers of deception. Thus it requires more work. And most people shy away from that when they have an easier solution presented to them, even if it isn't necessarily a better one.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    There's also a laziness factor to it.
    Have to admit I am a bit guilty of this. Maybe its because I don't know many coin effects, but coin effects aren't as readily available on the market as card effects are. And the laziness factor comes into play there, because I can't be bothered to look around for them, as I am comfortable with a pack of cards.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by retroherb View Post
    Have to admit I am a bit guilty of this. Maybe its because I don't know many coin effects, but coin effects aren't as readily available on the market as card effects are. And the laziness factor comes into play there, because I can't be bothered to look around for them, as I am comfortable with a pack of cards.
    Hey man,

    If you are looking for what many coin workers calls the "Bible" of coin work. It is J.B. BoBo's book "Modern Coin Magic".... I have included a link to where you can purchase it!

    Take care!

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    Last edited by Lamont100; 03-23-2009 at 11:53 AM.
    “Technique is only a telephone wire—what’s important is the message going through it.”

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamont100 View Post
    Hey man,

    If you are looking for what many coin workers calls the "Bible" of coin work. It is J.B. BoBo's book "Modern Coin Magic".... I have included a link to where you can purchase it!

    Take care!

    _D. LaMont_

    http://www.ellusionist.com/product/t...rrivals&page=1
    Cheers, I'm gonna have to check that out when I make my next purchases. I like to buy in bulk because shipping to the UK costs $25, which is a bit much for just a $12 book, and then I have to pay a customs charge once it gets here.

  10. #10
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    Retroherb, if you are worried about shipping, why not just buy hte book on amazon, it is on there you know. E is great but it's not the only place to buy magic.

    Coin magic is not necessarily harder than magic, nor is the converse true. The only thing you can really say with any accuracy is that they are quite different.

    For example, there are certainly very easy card tricks, self-working even if that's what you want to call them, though even the most basic of coin tricks require some kind of palming or sleight of hand which is why card magic is often deemed easier than coin magic. However once you get to the higher end of each discipline, it's really entirely subjective. Is a center deal easier or harder than the Hadrada hold? I dunno, depends who you are asking, there's no standardised way of comparing them so it really comes down to personal opinion.

    Ultimately I would add that really, difficulty shouldn't be a factor. No matter what type of magic you choose to learn, it will take practice, that much goes without saying, some magic make take slightly longer to learn than other magic, but if it's what you want to learn and to be able to do then it shouldn't really matter to you. A discipline chosen because you think it will be an easy ride or because you think it will give you bragging rights among other magicians is a discipline chosen for the wrong reasons.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by retroherb View Post
    Cheers, I'm gonna have to check that out when I make my next purchases. I like to buy in bulk because shipping to the UK costs $25, which is a bit much for just a $12 book, and then I have to pay a customs charge once it gets here.
    Just a tip. You can get it on lybrary.com as a digital download. Free shipping ;)

    Cheers,

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  12. #12
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    I agree with Sankey about coin magic being more character and personality driven. Your movements and sleights need to fit yer common style. As I often say, make the magic to you not the other way around.
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    Another thing is that a lot of coin magicians tend to lack context. David Roth has even fallen into this problem. His whole "I put the eagle side up, so it can FLY." bit is just lame and I'm sure the only reason he gets away with it is because he is pretty much a master at coin magic.

    A lot of people will do coin magic in a way like "This coin travels here, and that coin travels there." Rather than giving it context.

    Also it can be hard if you are the only one judging the sleights or if you go by what people on the internet say. Which you shouldn't. You should go by what the spectators say, because you perform for lay people.
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  14. #14
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    I, personally, don't do much magic with coins. I only know a few simple sleights like the French Drop, the classic palm, finger palm, and thumb palm. I'm also pretty good at the coin roll.

    I know a lot of card magic. I guess it's just what I started with, so I got used to working with them, now I'm pretty good.

    I don't know which one is harder, I think it's different for certain people.

    P.S. Not to be rude or anything, but haven't you started like 5 different threads about the classic palm before?

    Dave

  15. #15
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    "I only know a few simple sleights like the French Drop, the classic palm, finger palm, and thumb palm"


    With those few palms, you could still develop a wealth of effects and routines. Look into the IMS video on coin magic taught by Rocco.

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