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  1. #1
    Steerpike's Avatar :: Moderator
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    Robert Greene and Magic - Master the Art of Insinuation

    The Art of Seduction - Master the Art of Insinuation

    Of all of Greene's books, this is the one I'm probably going to get the most grief for referencing, simply because seduction is taking on a very negative connotation in today's society. I have a whole bunch of theories as to why that is, but if you really wanted to hear about it, you'd ask me in private.

    Where was I?

    Robert Greene has referenced magicians several times in his collective works, always speaking very positively about our job skills and their value in strategy, social dynamics, and seduction. Indeed, our art/profession does require a lot of critical thinking skills as well as the ability to handle people and control the outcomes of a social event. It's a role that requires leadership, charm, and charisma. And this time around, I'd like to bring up a rather curious individual whose name pops up repeatedly in The Art of Seduction.

    Count Saint-Germain was one of the greatest con artists of his time. He wasn't technically a magician, but there is more crossover between the two than our side is comfortable acknowledging. The Count created quite a stir when he arrived at the court of King Louis XV. He was an exceptionally wealthy man, a master painter, and a virtuoso musician on the violin. And he frequently spoke of alchemy, the philosopher's stone, and the elixir of life.

    Not once did the count ever claim to possess such talents or treasures. He merely implied. People came to associate him more and more with these legends, and when they began asking him if he did possess them, he always responded, "Perhaps," as if he himself wasn't certain whether or not he did.

    Such was the count's mystical aura that when he finally died, decades went by with people continuing to believe that he was still alive and had actually faked his own death. Sound familiar to any rock and roll fans out there?

    The key was insinuation. He never made direct claims. He wove a tapestry of implications, half-truths and subtle suggestions into his speech. He projected an outward image that matched his layers of chicanery. The goal was to let people tie the variants hints and clues together and come to the conclusions he intended them to while thinking the ideas were their own.

    This continues into the modern era. Those who arrogantly boast of their own greatness and constantly try to prove it only give themselves enough rope to tie their own noose. But those who insinuate their talents and then let those so seduced do all the talking reap far greater rewards.

    Have you been using this strategy? How? And if not, what do you intend to do about it?
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    Joe Hadsall's Avatar :: Content developer
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    Excellent post, Steer. My response is mainly for the sake of argument. To be honest, no I haven't used this strategy. Not for lack of trying; I just didn't know about it.

    The biggest problems I see with it, at first glance: The lack of control over the message and the opportunity to actually put it into practice. For it to be effective, people have to be the ones to ask you questions. It would be difficult (note that I didn't say "impossible") to seed question-triggering ideas into people without some setup that might not jibe with our performance characters.

    Also, it was easy for Count-St. Germain to get away with such mystery, in his day. I'd say people are much more skeptical these days, and are not as inclined to believe that you can do whatever they think. And I don't think it's as simple as never giving a clear answer. In fact, if someone asks something and you say "Maybe," I think people today are more inclined to answer in the negative.
    “What’s the point of that, I wonder? I mean, I get how they did it. I just ain’t seeing the why.”
    ~Malcolm Reynolds

  3. #3
    Steerpike's Avatar :: Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hadsall View Post
    In fact, if someone asks something and you say "Maybe," I think people today are more inclined to answer in the negative.
    A cynic would. But what about a romantic?
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    I personally think the idea is self conscious. As Joe has said

    To be honest, no I haven't used this strategy. Not for lack of trying; I just didn't know about it.
    I dont think anyone would try to slyly suggest their talents on purpose, I am almost certain that most people do use this technique, but they dont know they are.

    Also, unless the individual is extremely pretentious and some what aloof, they will not be bosting their talents either.

    This continues into the modern era. Those who arrogantly boast of their own greatness and constantly try to prove it only give themselves enough rope to tie their own noose. But those who insinuate their talents and then let those so seduced do all the talking reap far greater rewards.
    Very impressive thread.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    The Art of Seduction - Master the Art of Insinuation

    Of all of Greene's books, this is the one I'm probably going to get the most grief for referencing, simply because seduction is taking on a very negative connotation in today's society. I have a whole bunch of theories as to why that is, but if you really wanted to hear about it, you'd ask me in private.

    Where was I?

    Robert Greene has referenced magicians several times in his collective works, always speaking very positively about our job skills and their value in strategy, social dynamics, and seduction. Indeed, our art/profession does require a lot of critical thinking skills as well as the ability to handle people and control the outcomes of a social event. It's a role that requires leadership, charm, and charisma. And this time around, I'd like to bring up a rather curious individual whose name pops up repeatedly in The Art of Seduction.

    Count Saint-Germain was one of the greatest con artists of his time. He wasn't technically a magician, but there is more crossover between the two than our side is comfortable acknowledging. The Count created quite a stir when he arrived at the court of King Louis XV. He was an exceptionally wealthy man, a master painter, and a virtuoso musician on the violin. And he frequently spoke of alchemy, the philosopher's stone, and the elixir of life.

    Not once did the count ever claim to possess such talents or treasures. He merely implied. People came to associate him more and more with these legends, and when they began asking him if he did possess them, he always responded, "Perhaps," as if he himself wasn't certain whether or not he did.

    Such was the count's mystical aura that when he finally died, decades went by with people continuing to believe that he was still alive and had actually faked his own death. Sound familiar to any rock and roll fans out there?

    The key was insinuation. He never made direct claims. He wove a tapestry of implications, half-truths and subtle suggestions into his speech. He projected an outward image that matched his layers of chicanery. The goal was to let people tie the variants hints and clues together and come to the conclusions he intended them to while thinking the ideas were their own.

    This continues into the modern era. Those who arrogantly boast of their own greatness and constantly try to prove it only give themselves enough rope to tie their own noose. But those who insinuate their talents and then let those so seduced do all the talking reap far greater rewards.

    Have you been using this strategy? How? And if not, what do you intend to do about it?
    First off i would like to say that this is an awesome post.

    The reason i enjoyed reading it is the fact that this is what i'm trying to achieve myself.

    Although i enjoy using the art of insinuation, i also think that its beneficiary to me to add something concrete to my personality. But thats just me.

    I do not use this in my magic whatsoever, its more built into my personality rather than anything else.

    i have a feeling that this is going to be a great thread.
    "Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hadsall View Post
    Excellent post, Steer. My response is mainly for the sake of argument. To be honest, no I haven't used this strategy. Not for lack of trying; I just didn't know about it.

    The biggest problems I see with it, at first glance: The lack of control over the message and the opportunity to actually put it into practice. For it to be effective, people have to be the ones to ask you questions. It would be difficult (note that I didn't say "impossible") to seed question-triggering ideas into people without some setup that might not jibe with our performance characters.

    Also, it was easy for Count-St. Germain to get away with such mystery, in his day. I'd say people are much more skeptical these days, and are not as inclined to believe that you can do whatever they think. And I don't think it's as simple as never giving a clear answer. In fact, if someone asks something and you say "Maybe," I think people today are more inclined to answer in the negative.
    Relating that to my life, i would have to say that the last statement is untrue.

    Although you are using maybe as an example, it has always worked for me.

    However, i think what you mentioned would differ from personality to personality.

    I would think the results of the positivity/negativity would be different along the spectrum of all the peoples different personalities out there.

    My opinion on Bigstu's statement:

    I think what you might mistake for pretentious, might be someone elses confidence.
    Again, to each their own.

    a good example here would be; someone with low self esteem and self confidence might take someone else's confidence or success as them being pretentious. Whereas, to someone of the same mentality, this may be seen as success and confidence. No jealousy, just appreciation. Someone like that is hard to find, but it is possible. As the saying goes "The worst part of success is to try to find someone who is happy for you".

    Musab
    Last edited by Musab; 02-15-2009 at 06:06 PM.
    "Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen"

  7. #7
    Joe Hadsall's Avatar :: Content developer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    A cynic would. But what about a romantic?
    Of course, a romanitc would eat it up and be more receptive to doing exactly what you say. And that speaks to using narrow audience selection — perhaps a little too narrow for my tastes. I like my audiences a little skeptical, because (and here's where my hypocritical irony sets in) they are more receptive to my performance character, thus enhancing my reputation.

    I wish I weren't at work right now... I could write several more grafs on this.
    “What’s the point of that, I wonder? I mean, I get how they did it. I just ain’t seeing the why.”
    ~Malcolm Reynolds

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