Daniel Madison

[baller08]

His skills are amazing. If anyone has his Mystique DVD or watched him perform Aces knows how talented he is. I'm definitely a big fan of his work.

[Medifro]

Has anyone seen this guy, I think he's amazing.
I really like the whole underground take to magic, tho ive found theres alot of people who dont like it.

I was chatting with a good friend about this recently, we talked about this alot.

Its not that we don't like it, its that we just find it very weird if not funny and absurd, because it does not resemble the word "underground" or anything near it.

I've been into several magicians blogs and some of them actually proudly name themselves as part of The Magicians Underground, not to mention the videos here and there of magicians actually claiming to be the same thing.

Here is an example to make things clear: Lets consider Mafia gang members ( weird example, but stay with me) to be underground, what if one of them wears a T-Shirt with "I'm a Mafia Member" on it? Having something that identifies you as part of the magic underground makes as much sense as wearing a T-shirt that identifies you as a member of a Mafia.

This is not to say that there are no cliques in magic. You can form one yourself. Just get together with a couple of friends and start snubbing other magicians. But that's no way the same as an underground magic circle. Its easy to understand why most of today's magicians can't tell the difference because they weren't there back when magic was really an underground. I wasn't, but I know some who were, and had the pleasure to talk with.

Magic Underground can be defined ( as a friend puts it) as having a monopoly on a cache of exclusive magic information. The measure of that monopoly is the amount of time that elapses between when something circulates within the inner circle and when it finally reaches the masses. Darwin Ortiz ( a card magician and author ) mentioned somewhere that when Derek Dingle ( great close up magician) taught him the Staurt Gordon Double Lift, it was 15 years later that the move got published in a Darwin Ortiz book, Dingle also taught him the Altman DoubleUndercut palm ( a very good palm), and the move was published after a decade. This is not to mention that the moves were invented years ago before Dingle taught it. Another example is Fred Robinson's Center Deal has only been taught face to face to certain individuals, and to this day the move is not tipped anywhere. Today, the lead-time between private circulation and mass distribution is two or three years and shrinking.

Many might disagree with me. Romantic notions die hard, particularly in an inherently romantic field like magic. Heck, debunking the magic underground is like disproving flying saucers. To some, the very lack of evidence is proof of just how super-secret they are.

Finally, some magicians have a deep interest in perpetuating (spelling, I learned this word recently) this myth. Stay tuned for the magic underground video series, magic underground magazine, magic underground cable TV show, and magic underground decoder ring. (Of course, you won’t be allowed access to any of these super-secret things—unless you have a credit card.)

If any of you wants to let others play on your insecurities by implying that they’re part of some exclusive underground that you’re not, that, of course, is your business. If you start feeling too badly, you can always start a website or make a video that proclaims you a member of the magic underground. (Or just have a tee shirt printed up.)

Cheers,
~ Feras
So Underground that no one cares.
P.S, been while, E forums :)

[Xntrix]

P.S, been while E forums :)

It has.

Glad to have you back Feras, and back in style. :)

JS.

[chr!s]

Daniel is a good guy and a very good magician.

I'm not an authority on flourishing, so can't comment on that.

I think I know what Daniel is doing with the 'Underground Magic Circle' he's heading, though I can't be a hundred percent sure, of course. If my suspicions are correct though, I applaud him.

I speak to him from time to time, and count him as a very good confidante and sounding board.

And AngleZero rocks my socks.

CL

[Medifro]

It has.

Glad to have you back Feras, and back in style. :)

JS.

Thanks mate :)

I think I know what Daniel is doing with the 'Underground Magic Circle' he's heading, though I can't be a hundred percent sure, of course. If my suspicions are correct though, I applaud him.

Out of curiosity, what do you have in mind?

Not that I'm wondering whats Mr.Madison's up to ( don't care really), but always a treat to know other people's thoughts on this.
:)

Regards,
~ Feras

[Wolvy]

Daniel Madisons about has Underground has David Blaine.

He's a good magician but to keep calling yourself "underground" is really silly when people can buy his DVD's and lecture notes and not to mention that pretty much everybody in the magic circle knows of him.

If he were truly underground. He would be unheard of and he wouldn't be doing lectures or DVD's.

[chr!s]

Thanks mate :)


Out of curiosity, what do you have in mind?

Not that I'm wondering whats Mr.Madison's up to ( don't care really), but always a treat to know other people's thoughts on this.
:)

Regards,
~ Feras

Well, it would be irresponsible of me to start discussing something I have no idea about, ona public access forum, especially when it involves somebody I know quite well... But I think it's not as black and white (so to speak) as it may appear. I think D+M's doing something pretty sneaky... But not in a bad way.
Thats all I'm gonna mention- I have my suspicions!

CL

[4757joshua2]

Daniel Madison's about has Underground has David Blaine.

That would depend on your definition of "underground."


adjective


1. occurring, working, placed, used, etc. beneath the surface of the earth

Do you know where DM works? I doubt it.

2.secret; hidden; undercover

Only magicians know of him, he's not some super famous person among the laypeople like Copperfield. Thus you could call him underground.

3. designating or of newspapers, films, music, etc. that are unconventional, experimental, radical, etc.

We all talk about how unique Daniel's CMs are!


adverb

1. beneath the surface of the earth
2. in or into secrecy or hiding; so as to be undercover; surreptitiously

noun

1. the entire region beneath the surface of the earth
2. an underground space or passage
3. a secret movement organized in a country to oppose or overthrow the government in power or enemy forces of occupation
4. an underground movement in media, films, music, etc.
5. Brit. a subway

DM is very underground. So is De'vo, Dan and Dave Buck, Danny Garcia, and lots of other people!

You people seem to think that unless someone lives in tiny room deep underground doing secret moves and stuff that they are not underground!?!

[exasperated=4757joshua2]
Ohhhh, please!

[/exasperated]

[urban entropy]

You people seem to think that unless someone lives in tiny room deep underground doing secret moves and stuff that they are not underground!?!

Re-read what Feras wrote. Specifically with the paragraph starting here:

Magic Underground can be defined

He pretty much hit the nail on the head. To claim one is 'underground' has become a trend and a brand; hence the development of 'overground.'

urban

[Dave Wiltrout]

I was chatting with a good friend about this recently, we talked about this alot.

Its not that we don't like it, its that we just find it very weird if not funny and absurd, because it does not resemble the word "underground" or anything near it.

I've been into several magicians blogs and some of them actually proudly name themselves as part of The Magicians Underground, not to mention the videos here and there of magicians actually claiming to be the same thing.

Here is an example to make things clear: Lets consider Mafia gang members ( weird example, but stay with me) to be underground, what if one of them wears a T-Shirt with "I'm a Mafia Member" on it? Having something that identifies you as part of the magic underground makes as much sense as wearing a T-shirt that identifies you as a member of a Mafia.

This is not to say that there are no cliques in magic. You can form one yourself. Just get together with a couple of friends and start snubbing other magicians. But that's no way the same as an underground magic circle. Its easy to understand why most of today's magicians can't tell the difference because they weren't there back when magic was really an underground. I wasn't, but I know some who were, and had the pleasure to talk with.

Magic Underground can be defined ( as a friend puts it) as having a monopoly on a cache of exclusive magic information. The measure of that monopoly is the amount of time that elapses between when something circulates within the inner circle and when it finally reaches the masses. Darwin Ortiz ( a card magician and author ) mentioned somewhere that when Derek Dingle ( great close up magician) taught him the Staurt Gordon Double Lift, it was 15 years later that the move got published in a Darwin Ortiz book, Dingle also taught him the Altman DoubleUndercut palm ( a very good palm), and the move was published after a decade. This is not to mention that the moves were invented years ago before Dingle taught it. Another example is Fred Robinson's Center Deal has only been taught face to face to certain individuals, and to this day the move is not tipped anywhere. Today, the lead-time between private circulation and mass distribution is two or three years and shrinking.

Many might disagree with me. Romantic notions die hard, particularly in an inherently romantic field like magic. Heck, debunking the magic underground is like disproving flying saucers. To some, the very lack of evidence is proof of just how super-secret they are.

Finally, some magicians have a deep interest in perpetuating (spelling, I learned this word recently) this myth. Stay tuned for the magic underground video series, magic underground magazine, magic underground cable TV show, and magic underground decoder ring. (Of course, you won’t be allowed access to any of these super-secret things—unless you have a credit card.)

If any of you wants to let others play on your insecurities by implying that they’re part of some exclusive underground that you’re not, that, of course, is your business. If you start feeling too badly, you can always start a website or make a video that proclaims you a member of the magic underground. (Or just have a tee shirt printed up.)

Cheers,
~ Feras
So Underground that no one cares.
P.S, been while, E forums :)

Amen Feras, Amen..

-Dave-

[4757joshua2]

Oh! Medifro is Feras.

Magic Underground can be defined ( as a friend puts it) as having a monopoly on a cache of exclusive magic information.

That is one definition, but I don't see how it is relevant here. We are talking about a person, not information.

He pretty much hit the nail on the head. To claim one is 'underground' has become a trend and a brand; hence the development of 'overground.'

Maybe underground is a trend and a brand to some, but that does not change the fact that DM is underground.

[Goudinov]

Joshua, this topic is beyond you... you're only making yourself look more and more as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

[4757joshua2]

Joshua, this topic is beyond you... you're only making yourself look more and more as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

DM, and his work are both by definition underground. You wanna dispute that? Go ahead. But don't just say "Blah blah you don't know what you're talking about blah blah" without saying what you think is wrong with what I said, or backing up anything about what you have said.

[Wolvy]

Danial Madisons work does not define "underground." XCM has been around and known to most of the magic community for years before he got started on doing it.

He is not "underground". You cannot call yourself underground if you have the following things. A website. DVD's teaching your effects. Lecture notes for sale.

If he was really underground he would be unknown and his work would only be known by a certain select few.

[Xntrix]

'The overground does not exist as a physical place. It is a concept... Recently a new breed of magician came into being as a result of the proliferation of magic related sites on the internet. These magicians are part of the everchanging overground.

The name for this new magic arena, the overground, comes from the contrast between its goals (if it can be said to have goals) and the goals of the legendary magic underground.

The magic underground might be defined as a small collection of individuals who are dedicated to sharing secrets of magic with only a select group of qualified magicians, while keeping that knowledge ane even its existence hidden from anyone outside the group.

The main point is that magic in the overground is highly hyped and easily obtainable. The arena of the overground is an open marketplace in which magicians can buy and sell ideas. One of the most important requirements for the economic success of a magic effect in the overground is the ability to generate excitement. Teaser videos, veiled mentions on discussion sites, questions regarding a release date and other tactics can create a wave of gossip and enthusiasm prior to the release of a new trick...


[Taken from the article 'Footnotes from the Overground' by Ricky Smith, Magic Magazine, Vol 17 No 12]



JS.